| Mr. A: |
I would like to question on your article of “Does
a quality management system include product realization processes?
Oct.4w, 2002” in Basic knowledge of ISO9001:2000 corner on your
web-site.
I have summarized your thought by following three items. Are
they correct?
| 1. |
Quality management
system (QMS) does not include product realization processes. |
| 2. |
8.2.3 should have been written
monitoring and measurement of the product realization
processes, instead of ones of QMS. |
| 3. |
Monitoring and measurement
of QMS should be done by internal audits. |
The certification body to which my company has registration
has said that processes which have to be monitored according
to requirements in 8.2.3 clause include all processes mentioned
in 4.1 clause. But in other part of 8.2.3 clause it also says
“――― to ensure conformity of the product”. Confusing!
|
| My answer: |
Your understanding of the article of mine is perfect with
the three items. ISO9001:2000 is confusing with management activities
and production process activities due to misapplication of PDCA
model to management (refer to “A critical misapplication of
the PDCA model: 2002, May.3w” in individual clauses relating
ISO9001:2000 corner on this web-site).
|
| Mr. A: |
If QMS does not include product realization processes, then
I wonder what clause 7 is for.
In order to make relations of QMS and product realization processes
clear, I often use cormorant fishing as a metaphor for both
relations. In the case of a design section cormorants compare
to engineers and a cormorant fisherman compares to its manager.
Does the clause 7 require things that cormorants have to observe
by themselves or a cormorant fisherman should force to do to
his or her cormorants?
|
| My answer: |
A cormorant fisherman has several reins which hold cormorants’
each necks. ISO9001:2000 is the Standards for a cormorant fisherman,
not for cormorants. A cormorant fisherman, handling reins, has
to control fishing activities done by his or her cormorants.
Therefore there will be inevitably duplication of requirements
of the clause 7 with 8.2.2. (Refer to “Duplication
of monitoring of processes over internal audits: Jan.2w, 2004”
in individual clause relating ISO9001:2000 corner on this web-site).
According to English etymology, “manage” is to rein a horse.
In this case a horse rider compares to a cormorant fisherman
and a horse compares to a cormorant.
|
| Mr. A: |
When I talked about the “cormorant fishing” model at my private
meeting with engineers who are compared to cormorants, they
raised a laugh.
In my company there was layoff of some engineers and the design
section manager often has had to catch fishes in a river.
|
| My answer: |
In a small business there will be frequently be a need to
share duties and responsibilities. The merit of the status is
that a manager can get actual understanding of product realization
status. The demerit is that often a manager confuses management
activities with product realization activities. In the above
metaphor of cormorant fishing, problems are that a cormorant
fisherman who sometimes catches fishes in river is apt to be
unable to understand the basic different roles between a cormorant
fisherman and cormorants and sometimes loose reins of some of
them which lead to lack of management.
|
| Mr. A: |
It is exactly the most important management problem confronting
in my company. |